The First Book of Project of "Oral History of Wives of Commanders" from Perspective of Author

Combination of Memories and Social History of the War

Maryam Asadi Jafari
Translated by Ruhollah Golmoradi

2018-2-27

When a war to be started its consequences would be felt by all parts of society. Meanwhile, senior warlords and their families are engaged with the most difficulties. Iraq's eight-year war against Iran is no exception too. Young women who newly married had to wait always in order to get a contact of their husbands, and endured responsibility of managing their lives and raising their children alone. Their husbands also did not have much time to visit their families because of their very engagement during the war.

Although in recent years many works have been published on role of women in the war, but no one has addressed wives of senior warlords except for Sacred Defense Documents and Research Center. Department of Social Studies of the Center has been initiated recording and compiling their memories for a project titled "Oral History of Commander Wives". Book of "Hamrah (Companion)"[1] is unspoken narrative of Dr. Mehrshad Shababi on companioning Sardar, Major General Dr. Seyyed Yahya (Rahim) Safavi is the first volume of this project. Dr. Shababi's narration of living with Sardar Safavi is very interesting and readable, and portrays a new side of life of this commander of the war. Zahra Ardestani, a MA graduate of Islamic philosophy from University of Qom, has been worked in Sacred Defense Documents and Research Center for about five years ago and is interviewer and author of this book. Let's read interview of Iranian Oral History Website with Zahra Ardestani on "Hamrah".

*You are nephew of deceased Dr. Hossein Ardestani, the late head of Sacred Defense Documents and Research Center. Tell about role and effect of Dr. Ardestani on your engagement and entering into field of oral history of the war.

My late uncle did not play a direct role in encouraging or inviting me for working in this field. Start-point of working in in field of Holy Defense was my own proposal. My childhood and teenage was spent in the war, my mind and heart is tied to its spiritual environment, and I myself was interested in Holy Defense in this regard. My uncle was one of the most influential people in our family, and his thoughts and remarks were important to us. In fact, his words had an indirect impact and made me more interested in this space. But when I decided to start it, I asked him to help me. He introduced me to Department of Social Studies in Sacred Defense Documents and Research Center. After some time working with this group, I entered work on oral history of wives of the war commanders.

*What documents and resources did you use for being familiar with Ms. Shababi since there is no information and document about wives of the war commanders in archives of Sacred Defense Documents and Research Center? Or perhaps you started it without any previous knowledge so that process of the intensive advances it.

When I started oral history project of the commander wives, I took somehow the second step. Of course, for being knowledge in general information on oral history and biography, I studied books and articles related to oral history to get acquainted with their goals and characteristics. But in particular about Ms. Shababi, I read completely book of "From Southern Lebanon to Southern Iran: Memories of Sardar, Major General Seyyed Rahim Safavi" to see what he had said about his wife. Of course, a very short part of the memories was on his wife. He had talked briefly about their common life in Kurdistan and Ms. Shababi's contributions. But, really, I went without prior presumption and I made all my effort to see what aspects of Mrs. Shababi's life should be examined based on purpose of Documents Center for compiling oral history of wives of commanders. So, to meet this goal, I looked for information and memories that would provide the center request, and I put forward some questions in this regard.

*Sometimes there is no information on the Internet or books about some of interviewees. So you have no choice but to enter interview to see what results are extracted from the conversations and then use information of informed people. Before talking about first part of "Hamrah", it's better to address its apogee, that is the war period. I think love letters of Mrs. Shababi and Sardar Safavi have increased attractiveness of the book. Did you imagine such a fascinating subject to be hidden among Mrs. Shababi memories?

I really did not expect such an outcome and I did not know what personality I would be facing because I did not know Mrs. Shababi at all. I also did not know private character of Sardar Safavi. I only knew him as a military commander, and there was no speculation about relationship between these two people and adventures of their life. In fact, I just tried how I could get their memories and form them in a readable text. After encountering Mrs. Shababi during the first meeting, kind of treating, and arranging material and words, gave me an assessment on her personality so that I could establish a relationship with the narrator in subsequent visits and identify her interests and sensitivities. I tried to manage interview sessions based on personality of the narrator to meet my goals.

*Characteristics such as sociable or being taciturn of narrator become clear in first sessions and have an impact on process of oral history interview. Did Mrs. Shababi refuse to express memories and showing letters? Did she explicitly express their personal memories? Perhaps due to position of Dr. Shababi and Sardar Safavi, it is normal not to say some memories.

Fortunately for the letters, the second one happened. We did not know that there letters of these two people. If they did not talk about the letters themselves and did not show us, we would not know of any other way of their existence. Presenting the letters made me happy and was a great help in our work. About personal memories of Mrs. Shababi and Sardar Safavi and their life warmth, fortunately, they were interested in bring it up for any internal or personal reason. Mrs. Shababi cooperated very well with us. But anyway, it's likely, as you mentioned, not to express some memories because of their social status.

*Did Sardar Safavi also contribute as much as in expressing memories?

I did not have another direct interview with him except for two interviews with Sardar and his wife. In the two meetings, which were done before Mr. Yahya Niazi, most of his questions were raised by Mr. Niazi and I just asked a few brief questions from Sardar. But during interview with Mrs. Shababi, I indirectly and through Mrs. Shababi, I was able to receive answer of my questions from Sardar. Indeed, that Sardar paid attention to publishing Mrs. Shababi memories is somehow thank to her for tolerating life's difficulties during the war. For this reason, he spent a good time for the work and answered my questions through his spouse. He did not disagree with presenting emotional matters too, and was very comfortable with this issue. In those two joint interviews, I saw emotional state of Sardar Safavi and his attention to Mrs. Shababi more tangible. I think different view of Sardar Safavi on relationship between men and women on the one hand and combining marital duties along with social responsibilities on the other hand, has led he always be a good supporter for his wife, and in this work do not hesitate for cooperate and have no personal fear about presenting their emotional relationship in society too. Of course, Mrs. Shababi and Sardar Safavi pointed out that there might be some complaints after publication of the book. They had little concern about space of society, but it was not very intense. I told them that if we want to write a book for the public and show civilian aspect of the war, expressing these emotional relationships and attention to pleasures of marital life and spiritual needs of wife and children, along with describing difficulties of life during the war are very important. It is also important to show simple life of Sardar and other his associates during the war despite important role of commanding.

*Please talk about two joint interviews with Sardar Safavi and Mrs. Shababi. Did two visits affect better rationalization of the interviews?

As I told, during interview with Mrs. Shababi, I asked some questions through Mrs. Shababi from Sardar Safavi. Sardar also co-operated and answered the questions. So I did not ask more than a few questions at those meetings; because I gradually got answer of most of ambiguities during interview with Mrs. Shababi from Sardar. I felt that perhaps Sardar Safavi have an untold word, but it was not the case, and only one or two memories on his own, the interviews did not add new information to text of the book. Full text of the interviews is at the end of the book.

*Of course, reading this interview was very interesting for us as an audience, and its release seems to be a wisely move. In pages related to early acquaintance of Mrs. Shababi and Sardar Safavi, I read letters like exchanging pre-marriage questions. The questions have completely ideologue and belief base, and there are no personal questions. But gradually, this relationship comes to a place that is both romantic and maintains its belief bases. At the beginning of most of the letters, terms like "my comrade" and "my companion" are used together, and perhaps this type of relationship is not understandable for today's generation. But publishing and introducing lifestyle of characters such as Sardar Safavi and his wife in explaining reasons for success of the first generation of the revolution in their common life is effective. What is your opinion?

I do not know how much I succeeded in conveying these concepts. Department of Social Studies of Sacred Defense Documents and Research Center was looking for several goals. The senior commanders of the war endured more engagement and pressure than the lower corps; because they were involved in the war for eight years, and their wives undertook all responsibility of their lives. These women and men who carried burden of the war were young. Ladies started marital life at the age of seventeen or eighteen. In these interviews, we were looking for what kind of thinking these ladies had that led them to try at the same low age to maintain and improve their lives without presence of their spouses. How they organized the situation along with their depression, and how much men balanced between responsibility of war and personal life. We tried to convey lifestyle of that era to the audience. If warlords and their wives were middle-aged, this amount of patience and maturity seemed natural, but when the nineteenth and twenty years youth showed such resistance and sacrifice and sympathy, value and magnitude of their work became more prominent. I think if lifestyle of these people, its roots and relations of two sides to be narrated well, it would affect realists and thoughtful young.

*It is definitely true. How did Mrs. Shababi's photos and letters of the war influence in remembering her memories? Did Mrs. Shababi forget at some points?

Yes. Both Mrs. Shababi and rest of the commander wives suffer from forgetting memories. I have to put a lot of energy, review past material, put myself in that space and conditions, and, based on that, write some questions so that they remember memories. But these letters helped me a lot. I read the letters and a few words were in writings that showed a period of events. If Dr. Shababi left a memory, or narrated it mistakenly, by using the letters I corrected narratives. Sometimes I spoke to Mrs. Shababi to read a part of the letter, which made it possible to remember forgotten parts or historical mistakes due to forgetfulness, and to render information richer.

*Let's go back to the first part of "Hamrah" and revolutionary struggles of Mrs. Shababi. In introduction of the book, you mentioned interview with Mrs. Shababi's friends during the revolution and Kurdistan. Explain about quality of these interviews and their impact on process of compiling "Hamrah".

Since purpose of the center is not to collect memories, and seek to extract social history of the war, so our work is a combination of memories and oral history, and we need to get more documentations than the narrator words. Whenever Mrs. Shababi says about her personal relationship with her husband, her narrative is enough. But since she tells of his activities during the revolution, Kurdistan, and his measures in IRGC Women Affairs Bureau, only the narrator's look and feel of those spaces is not enough. For example, when Mrs. Shababi says about establishment of Office of Women Affairs, measures of this office and its dissolution after change of commanders of IRGC, I wouldn't be satisfied with the talks as an oral history practitioner. That is, I would like to go Sardar Mohammad Ali Jafari or well-known and effective persons in dissolution of IRGC's Women's Affairs Office, and get at roots of reasons and stages of its closing, and extract a more precise and documented history. My personal desire was to share impersonal parts of Mrs. Shababi's memories with people associated with her in order to write a more accurate and documented text. But due to some limitations, unfortunately, I did not fully reach at my goal, and only I could contact through Mrs. Shababi with some of her friends in Kurdistan and have short conversations with them. One of her friends was in Isfahan who I traveled to Isfahan to talk with her. These conversations were relatively satisfactory, and I completed some of Mrs. Shababi's words based on her friend memories.

*Your book is oral history, and personal judgments and contemporary thoughts should not affect the narrative. You prevented intervene of narrator judgment into the text by supplementary interviews. Is text of "Hamrah" is exact text of implemented interviews? Or you also added it description and spatialization?

The fact is that origin of events is what Mrs. Shababi stated. Purpose of the document center was to make it a bit story-like but not going away from reality and truth would not be lost in the writer's spatialization. This was done to make the book more fluent and readable; because we wanted it would be different from oral history of Sardars, who are quite formal and accurate history of the war. I did in some parts spatialization, but very limited. I tried the stories that Mrs. Shababi had defined to the most and did not add anything. We have not had any storytelling at all. There are just limited spatializations for making the book more readable.

*Are you writing a new book?

Around 1390 – 1391 (SH), Sacred Defense Documents and Research Center started project of compiling biography of senior commander's wives and discussed with wives of several commanders including Sardar Rashid, Sardar Jafari, Sardar Rezaee, etc., and writers of Center are developing them. If there would be a good cooperation from wives and allow to publish their memories, those books will also be available in book market over time. I am currently working on oral history of Mrs. Tabatabaee, wife of Rear admiral, Ali Shamkhani.

*Will your experience gained from writing a book memory of Mrs. Shababi illuminate your path in compiling Mrs. Tabatabaee memories?

Surely; everything we do today is a great investment for tomorrow works. It makes mind more open and increases power of person. So tomorrow we will do the same work better. I worked hard for "Hamrah" that now doing a work like it is easier for me. On the one hand, I read book of "Hamrah" and criticized myself. On the other hand, I'm one step ahead for experiences of Mrs. Shababi's oral history. Of course, perhaps those experiences may not work completely; because each time I encounter a new personality who has new thoughts, spirits and sensations, mood and life different from Mrs. Shababi. So I need to use new ways to communicate and design questions; but in any case, since the goal is common, general framework is the same. So any job is a good help to do the next job better.