Interview with Ph.D. Mehdi Abolhassani Taraqi

“Oral History of Isfahan Bazar” Refers to Public Culture

Maryam Asadi-Jafari
Translated by Ruhollah Golmoradi

2017-6-28

Bazaars (Markets) as economic pulse of Iranian society have always influenced Iran's cultural, social and political events throughout history. If we take a closer look at the Bazaars and its guilds and caravanserai and all alleys and lanes of the market, there is a world of unspoken words related to popular culture. Popular culture includes most commonly used terms and titles in the market to outdated and enduring jobs. Meanwhile, Isfahan Bazaar is one of the most original and oldest markets of Iran. Therefore, analyzing process of formation to its growing trend in the historical eras and recording its culture through oral history have been one of concerns of Dr. Mehdi Abolhasani Taraqi and "Project of Oral History of Isfahan Bazaar" has been begun by the university professor. . He believes that Isfahani accent and existing jobs in the Isfahan market are just small part of attraction of this market and Project of Oral History of Isfahan will be on popular culture. The average age of interviewees in this project is between 55 and 96 years. The higher age, the more valid study.

Let's read Interview of Iranian Oral History Website with Dr. Mehdi Abolhassani Taraqi.

What did cause idea of oral history project of the Isfahan market?

Past and history of my city, as an Isfahani, have always been my concern which is being forgotten. Deceased Mirza Hossein Khan Tahvildar has a list of Isfahan market occupations. Late Allameh Jalaluddin Homaie also had listed businesses of 100 years earlier in an expansive manner. For example, who were chamber owners in the shoemaker market? Except for these lists, there is no other source. In this regard, due to the rapid changes in the market and entry of new jobs in the old market of Isfahan, the oral history project of the Isfahan market was began as a social, cultural, economic and political issue. Our priority is social, cultural, economic and at last political aspects. In the political part, we have considered role of Bazaar and its mosques in important political events such as the nationalization of oil and the Islamic revolution. Since the market is also related to popular culture, fortunately, Municipality's Cultural and Entertainment Organization of Isfahan and Museum of Assar Khaneh Shahi, the Research Institute for Study Popular Culture of Isfahan, are sponsors of the Oral History Project of Isfahan Market.

What do you mean by the Isfahan market is only the guilds around Naqsh-e Jahan Square?

The Isfahan market includes Hassanabad gate, entry of Neshat Street, to Qods Square, the former Touqchi. In fact, formation and texture of Isfahan city has been also formed around the market, but our plan in the first phase is 15 guilds of the market. For each guild, 10 interviews are required for each job. Our goal is to record oral history of the Isfahan market over the past 100 years - from the beginning of the Pahlavi era to now. Totally 150 interviews will be done in the market, but the Isfahan market has capacity of, at least, 500 interviews.

When will be started recording oral history of Isfahan market and how will you do it?
We started the first phase - Qeysarie Bazaar - from last of December 2016, and it will be continued for one year. The next phases will be done in the same way. This is done in two parts. In the first part, oral history interviews are highly professional, based on much study and obsession, and the second part is documenting and audio recording them. So far, 50 interviews have been performed with simultaneous audio and video recording. Video recording of interviews is needed to better understand the subject and visualize the narrator and to observe his language play and body movements. Video recording of interviews is very effective in documenting and collecting a rich collection of popular culture, such as the Isfahani dialect that has been changed over time. Isfahan's Oral History Project is about popular culture.
 

Which jobs and guilds have been identified in Qeysarie Bazaar?

Shoemaking market which it produced shoes in the past; market of carpet sellers in Bazaarcheh No (new market), dyers, textile printers and market of enamellers, which did a large range works including pitcher making and making various tools of metals such as nickel silver, brass and acetyl. The market of goldsmiths, sellers of tent-materials (lavafha), money-changers and confectioner are also other jobs. There were also caravansaries and Saras (house) in the markets. For example, in market of Qeysarie, we have Malek al Tojjar or Shah Caravanserais, where there were also various occupations. Many of the manufacturing workshops were in caravansaries. There were also various occupations in each Sara and caravanserai (Timche).

Was there just one job in each guild?

In the past, it was in this way, but has changed over the past 100 years. For example, the market for swordsmiths was active during the Safavid reign and was changed into the market for gunsmiths during the Qajar period and now is the market of goldsmiths. For this reason, its name was changed into "the golden market of gunsmiths". Unfortunately, recently there have been working only two gunsmiths in this market. The Treasury of the Commercial Bank was also in the Bazaar and there was one of the passenger companies of Isfahan in northwest side of Imam Khomeini Square too. We also record information of baths and mosques. For example, in the part of courtyard of Mullah Abdullah's school, which is a religious school, we had a coffee shop.

Which outdated jobs have you yet identified in the Isfahan market?

Today Tarkesh-Dooz-Ha or the same saddlers are not existed. The saddlers worked with leather and made saddles, bridles, stirrup, whip, lasso and collars. During the Reza Khan period, some made the army's cavalry gadgetry, but now they only made bags and shoes in the saddler guild. Isfahan's large tile makers already located in Bazaarcheh No which is now the market for carpet sellers. Keshikchi-Ha (guardians) and watchers (Natoor-Ha) were also other jobs of the Bazaar. Natootr-Ha or Keshikchi-Ha went to roof of the market to prevent theft through lightwell of chambers and checked path of the gutters during the rainy seasons.

What do you do if you do not find someone from a generation and job?

We have to suffice to witnesses and observer narratives. For example, shoemakers who know saddlers talk about them. Of course, we found an out-of-market saddler who was 95 years old and it was a pleasure that I could talk with him. Average age of interviewees is between 55 and 96 years. As age become higher, the work would be more credible.

Don't cause problems such as exaggeration in narration or forgetfulness the high age of the narrators?

Yes, there are problems with forgetfulness, Alzheimer and repeating and repeating an issue. Of course, in social and cultural history, we rarely encounter excessive exaggeration, but if you made a good relationship, they say a lot of unspoken. At the beginning of the interview, one might be embarrassed to say that my father had been a coolie in the marketplace. This is also one of the jobs that I was looking for its information. Coolies in the market were one of pillars of commodity relocation. In the old days, they carried a bale of commodity which was equal to several hundred kilos. I'm identifying names of all the market coolies. Social history means that we see low class people. I selected lowest layers of society. Even that how much money they were paid, where they gathered, and if someone wanted a coolie how he/she called him/her, are important for us too.

Except for the main occupations in guilds, do you also address business like chefs and coffee shops of the market?

We had even a Kalle Pacheh store in the market,. I interviewed one of the most elders of them named "Bemanali Gardanian". I do not even miss their surname and ask appellation of their surnames. Some people in the past chose pleasant or unpleasant nicknames that after beginning issuing birth certificates they selected the same nicknames as their surnames. For example, Professor Hossein Mostahfezian, one of great shoemakers market who was deceased recently, had been known "Hussein Shassi (chassis)" for his tall height. The shoemakers did not work on Saturdays, according to an old tradition, which they called it "Shanbe Nari (not going on Saturdays)". Also in producing shoes, we have a part called "Pesaisazi" that they make cover of shoes there, but the same term in enameling job has a different meaning. All these tips shape popular culture.

Have you gotten another sample of these tips in the course of the interviews?

Yes, the term "Ghal-Gozashtan (deserting)" also comes from goldsmithing job. Old goldsmiths worked with hand. For this reason, gold chips were thrown and scattered around. Jews gathered soil of around goldsmithing shops every night or every week, and in certain ways, they separated gold from the soil, which they called the action "Ghal-Gozashtan". Ghal-Gozashtan means settling and remaining gold or silver chips. Because of this when someone does not go his appointment and leave someone, it is called "deserting (Ghal-Gozashtan)".

Perhaps at the beginning of the oral history project of the Isfahan market, you did not imagine such results.

Yes, part of it is unpredictable, but if you ask more powerful questions and analyze all aspects, dimensions of a subject, you would surely have a good result.

On the way, what challenges do you face?

Due to environment and culture of Isfahan, and especially the Isfahan market, recording interview is a difficult task. Marketers are satisfied hardly for doing interview. When I ask about their jobs, they look the task suspiciously and ask for where we want this information. We assume that they would be satisfied for conducting interviews through many intermediaries, but they still oppose recording of interview. If you want to find abstract of Iranian features and culture, Isfahan and its market is the best place.

Why?

Because self-censorship, secrecy, traditional practice, adherence to principles of custom, religion and … are visible in Isfahan, especially in the Bazaar. There is, of course, conservatism in Isfahani people culture. For example, when I ask market owners, they are more sensitive.

Perhaps this sensitivity is due to working capital of the market.

Yes, there are different issues. Some chambers are mortgages or goodwill. Some have also problems with the owners, and this is coincided with the oral history project of the Isfahan market. But there are questions about ownership of the markets in my questions package. I need to know who the main owners are.

Have you also addressed role of women in the market?

Yes, we will also address role of women in the market. Part of productive work, in some jobs, was done by ladies in manufacturing workshop or at home; Carpet-weaving is the most common. In textile printing, ladies also do root-weaving of textile printing fabrics. Ladies continue to work part of goldsmithing, Khatam, vitreous enamel and textile printing. All of these businesses are legacy of the past.

In the middle of the interview, you mentioned social history. What methods do you follow to get a social oral history interview?

When I talk to an 85-year-old shoemaker, I might assign the first meeting to his neighborhood and don't address his job; because I am working in field of social history. He wants to talk about a place which there is now only its name. I ask about all its passages, people, markets and culture that have a world of content. Each interview is an opportunity; because it is unclear whether this person would be alive tomorrow or not. Since we have started oral history of the Isfahan market, about 5-6 of them died. As far as power of a person and his or her age let me, I must extract information from his mind. If this opportunity lost, I would regret it. Because information of these people are unique and do not exist in any book. The narrator says his observations and experiences as well as his father and grandfather. Since these narratives are said with one or two intermediaries, they are valid too. There is no hatred and nobody in field of social history. You can easily trust the narrations. Therefore, Isfahan Oral History Project revives and reanalyzing history of a century.

At the beginning of the conversation, you mentioned study and obsession in doing interview. What do you do after recording an interview?

The Isfahan market is a world of information and history. For this reason, I phased out the project. After the interviews, they are analyzed in field of research and performing, in other word pathology. We will archive its text in both original language and parole language, and also writing language versions. The first text will be for general using and the second for popular culture and linguistic researchers. We stopped deliberately between the first 50 interviews and continuation of the project in order to start the second part more vigorously after controlling and checking the interviews. I am looking for roots and contexts in oral history. In the oral history of Isfahan market, I go to for craftsman's family first. These questions themselves have a nostalgic state. In addition to being scientific, this method is for having a way with the narrator and it leads his more trust. Some of our people are suspicious and due to it they self-censor. When I go to the interviewee past, asking his parents and letting him to talk, this is a "history therapy"; because the narrator speaks and calms down. I myself strongly adhere to this method, and for this reason, rich data are extracted. In the oral history of Bazaar, we also noted written documents. So we took copies personal and written documents of the marketers, such as title deed, rentals documents and business licenses.

What will be outcome Oral History Project of Isfahan's Bazaar?

For each market part, we will publish bilingual or multilingual catalogs for tourists and marketers; because new generations of the market do not know their elders. For example, last generation people of goldsmiths were manufacturers and now they sell only gold. So in the past, they had art and skill and had been producer. The traditional market simultaneously delivered two features of production and art. Publishing small, independent and illustrated booklets and making documentaries for television channels are our other goals.

After finishing the first phase, when will you start recording oral history of other guilds?

During this experience, we decided to start the second and third phases at the same time. Unfortunately, we do not have enough human sources and the Bazaar is so important for me that I will do my best effort to do it myself. If the second and third phases of oral history of the Isfahan market won't be done due to some reason like budget problems, this plan would be incomplete.